For the love of Rust & Restoration dreams.

A few days ago, I went to meet a gentleman who informed me that he has a 1966 Volkswagen bus for sale. I saw pictures of his bus in the internet but the size of the pictures were just too small for me to see the details of the body of the bus.

I drove to the man’s house and saw the bus parked on the driveway at the owner’s house. I immediately noticed that there were a lot of problems in the body of the bus. Behind the front bumper of the bus there were a number of spots that has rust bubbling. Both the left and right side rockers are rusted out. A section of the floor area near the driver side has rust holes. Windshield frame has small rust bubbling. When I lifted the wood boards off of the floor area in the back, the whole floor is covered with rust. Lower part of the rear body corners has rust cancer. The roof area above the back hatch has rust bubbling and has a quarter size rust hole also. The battery tray is gone due to rust. The owner claims that the engine starts but the transmission may need some repair.

When I was checking on the nose of the bus, it seems to be fine but a closer look on the surface showed that it is partly covered by bondo. The dash seemed fine and the pair of 40/60 seats on the front are in good shape but needs new covers and cushion.

One thing I noticed in the bus is the thick insulation foam that covered the interior part of the roof, walls and floor areas of the bus. When I checked under the floor of the driver area, I also found 6-inch thick foam that covers that area. The foam I found on the bus is the same kind that is used to insulate walls inside homes. The foam comes in a liquid form and when it is sprayed in an area, it thickens forming a layer of insulation. I am guessing that the former owner of this bus saw the foam product and had the bright (or dumb) idea of using it on his VW bus. Since the weather temperature in the state of Oregon is freezing during winter, using the foam product on the VW bus seemed ideal. What the owner did not realize is that the foam traps moisture. Since salt is used to clear the roads from snow buildups, when this bus drove through the roads of Oregon, the foam trapped water and salt in it. Rust spread like a cancer and ate away parts of the body of the bus.

When I asked the owner what is the story of his bus, he told me that he found the bus in ebay. He contacted the owner who lives in Oregon. He paid $4000 for the bus plus $700 for shipping the bus from Oregon to Southern California. I don’t know exactly what transpired during their negotiation but it sounds like the new owner did not get a good picture of the real condition of the bus. It also appears that the previous owner withheld the horrible rust condition of the bus.

When I asked the new owner how much is he asking for the bus, he said that he is thinking about $5600. When I pointed to him that the bus has a lot of rust, he then lowered the price to $4500. Recognizing the huge amount of restoration cost that the bus needs, I told him that the bus is not for me. He then asked me what would it take for me to buy the bus. I politely told him that I am at $2500 on the bus. This kind of disappointed him but he was not annoyed because he was the one who popped out the question regarding what I will pay for the bus.

I found the owner to be a very nice guy and felt sorry that he made a bad deal on this VW bus. He is in contact with the previous owner whom he believes misled him regarding the real condition of the bus. Hopefully he can get some of his money back from the previous owner.

I listed a few suggestions when buying a VW bus from an out-of-state seller:

1. Always ask if the bus has a title and what state issued the title. Ask under whose name appears on the title. Deal with the owner of the vehicle, not the friend of the owner. If the bus does not have a title, try as much as you can to get the history about the bus. If the history is kind of blurry, get the VIN number then check with the Department of Motor Vehicles. You don’t want to end up with a stolen vehicle. Ask that a picture of the title be sent to you.
2. Have the seller send you pictures of all sides of the bus including ALL the floor areas inside and underneath the bus. Be sure to have a picture taken behind the nose of the bus for you to determine if there were restorations made on it.
3. If there are rust or damaged spots, ask that close-up pictures of those areas be e-mailed to you. This will help you assess the potential cost it will take to restore that particular area.
4. If you are purchasing an out-of-state VW bus for a large amount of money, it is best that you fly or take that long drive to see the bus first before purchasing it. Believe me, it is worth the cost to travel 1000 miles to check the bus before paying $10,000 to $15,000 for it. You can always back out if you think that the bus is not for you. It is better to spend $400 for making the trip than have a $10K to $15K loss on your purchase.

There are a lot of people out there who desires to have a restoration project. The common ones that are always excited to jump into a restoration projects are:

• Fathers who want to do a father-and-son car projects.
• Guys who want a restore a vintage vehicles to fulfill their handyman dreams
• Young guys who just want to restore their very own cool “oldie vehicle”
•  People who are being nostalgic and wants to relive the glorious decades of the 1950’s and 60’s.

Before you start jumping into the world of vintage vehicle restoration, you may want to do some deep reflection and reality checks.

How much are you willing to spend on restoring or owning a vintage vehicle?

This is a big deal because it determines if you have the funds to finish a project. There had been a lot of excited amateur restorers who would just jump into a restoration project believing that it is cheap and easy to restore cars. After being involved in their project for a while, cost starts to pile up and frustration settles in. They discover that their project is not as simple as it seems. A number of them just loose interest or gives up on their project causing it to stand idle. Some that have given up would try to sell their vehicle to recoup their cost. It is then that more bad news is thrown on their lap when they discover that they would not be able to recoup their cost because nobody wants to pay the price that they are asking. The project that started in good spirits has now turned into an ordeal.

About two weeks ago, I received two separate calls: one from a lady on her mid to late 50s and another from a guy who is on his mid-30s. Both of them asked me if I am selling a VW bus. I asked them what kind of bus they are looking for. The lady told me that she is looking for a running pre-1967 Westfalia bus while the guy wants just a fixer-upper pre-67 bus that runs with no major mechanical problems. When I asked each of them how much is their budget, both of them told me their budget is between $5000 to $6000.

The lady shared to me that she has been searching for her bus for years now and has not found one. I hesitated a little bit but I had to tell both of them that their budget will buy them a bay window bus that were made during the 1970s. I explained to the lady that a pre-1967 Westfalia could run her $12,000 or more. To the gentleman caller, I told him that he might be able to find a fixer-upper for $6000 if he broadens his search area to include other states outside California. I made him aware of the shipping cost and the other risks involved in buying out-of-state vehicles. When I asked him if he knows how to do auto body repair, he said he does not have any experience on that area. He also has limited skill in doing mechanical repairs on Volkswagens. I suggested to him to bring his budget to $12,000 so that he can buy a decent VW bus that is already mechanically sound.

Both people decided to just save some more or wait for the prices of vintage VW buses to come down. I wished them luck on their restoration plans and encourage them to keep their plans of owning & restoring a pre-1967 VW bus alive.

How much of the restoration are you capable of doing yourself?

Majority of first time restorers would claim that they would do everything on their own like assembling a replacement engine, rewiring the whole vehicle, welding body panels to repair rust areas, painting, etc. This is one of the major reason why a lot of projects do not get finished because restorers just load too much task on their hands without realizing that each task requires a certain level of skill to do it right. Assembling an engine the right way is achievable if you have a strong desire and patience for it. Doing body repair is harder, in my personal opinion, because the techniques on welding and metal work/fabrication needed to do a good restoration work takes a lot of practice to get it right. I am not saying that a beginner is incapable of learning it. It’s just that it takes a lot of practice to get these techniques right.

My suggestion when doing a restoration is to delegate some of the task in your project to someone who is skilled enough to do the job. It might cost you more but in the long run, it will speed up the completion of your project and even save you money down the road. Remember, if you do it yourself and you did not do it right, there is a possibility that you might have to go back to do repairs on it.

Last year, I met a guy who was driving a 1969 VW bus. He sold me the middle seat of his bus because he wanted to have more space in his bus. When he saw the pre-1967 bus that I was driving, he immediately told me that he wants to own one. I told him to be cautious in his purchases when it comes to split window bus. Three months after our meeting, he informed me that he bought a 21-window bus from a guy in northern California. He sent me pictures of the bus and I saw that it was a shell. The bus has primer paint all over it and I can not tell if there had been rust repairs done on it. The bus came with a complete set of seats which included a rare middle seat. They all needed new upholstery. The engine was out of the bus and needed to be rebuilt. When I asked him how he plans to restore it, he told me that he plans to get a book on how to restore a VW engine, install a new complete wiring harness and also he wants to have it repainted at a cost of around $5000. I sensed that this guy does not know what he is getting himself into. He does not have any experience repairing engines or wiring installation; does not know how to do interior work on a vehicle; no experience in VW body repair, and all of a sudden he wants to take a full bus restoration project?! Well, at least he is motivated to do it…Bless his soul!

During our conversation, I can sense that this guy is experiencing buyer’s remorse because he paid $20,000 for it. He asked me, “Do you think I paid too much?. I told him that he got a little excited and threw the voice of caution out the window when he bought his bus. But I added that the resell value on his bus will all depend on the quality of restoration craftsmanship that is done to it.

When he asked me about what I think about his overall project, I told him, “You have a big project here. Don’t give up on this bus, man. Good luck”.

Are you sure you have the unwavering patience & drive to learn a restoration skill?

Before taking a restoration project, make sure that you are taking the project because you love the art of vintage restoration. Without establishing this in your heart, chances are you will not survive the hurdles of the restoration process. It will also push you to learn the art of fixing the engine, welding, upholstery, wiring installation, etc. You may not be able to learn all these skills but being good in one or two of them will help you reduce your restoration cost.

You will hear a number of snobbish big headed VW restorers who will degrade you saying that you are incapable of taking a restoration project just because you are a beginner. Please do not believe on the boastful talk of these jerks. All highly skilled restorers started with zero knowledge when they first loosen their first bolt in their very first automobile restoration project.

The problem with these arrogant restorers is they think that they have risen in skill “rank” making them superior to the novice restorers telling them that they are incapable of achieving their level of craftsmanship. They would say things like, “I have been doing this for years and it would take you a long time to learn it”. What these bigheaded dumbells do not know is each and everyone has a different learning curve. That jerk might have taken years to learn while another self starter might take only weeks to learn the same thing. The will of the heart and the dedication to learn affects the length of the learning curve. Arrogant jerks have a longer learning curve.

Buy a bus that is easier and cheaper to restore.

Experienced restorers tend to buy VW bugs and buses that are easier to restore. They only take big projects if the bus is made during the years 1950 thru 1961. For bugs, pre-1957 oval windows are a favorite restoration projects even if their bodies have lots of rust issues. But for bugs and buses that are for quick flips at a good price, restorers look for limited rust and easy restoration repairs.

Since vintage VWs that are in good or excellent condition are hard to come by nowadays, whenever one is place out in the market, there is always a mad dash from a crowd of fanatic buyers to purchase it. The key to successfully grabbing these rare opportunities is to always be in the lookout for good buys. Advertise yourself as a serious buyer by putting up wanted ads out there. Do anything that can put you a few steps ahead of the rest of the VW buyers.

Remember, when the right VW project comes, do not hesitate because it only takes a few seconds of hesitation to lose a rare find. Keeping on digging through rust.

For the love of rust and Volkswagen restoration—Peace!

Vintage 1968 VW bus decision and the aftermath pest

Not long ago, a VW bus came out in the market that attracted my attention. It was a 1968 VW bus that was owned by the same guy since it was brand new. Wanting to get ahead of everybody, I frantically searched for the owner.

With the guidance and permission of the Lord, I was able to get a hold of the owner. The owner told me that he is reconsidering the price of the bus because he initially posted it at $1000. For a 1968 bus, that price is very attractive. I tried to convince the owner if I could just buy it from him but he told me that he will get back to me after a few days.

I waited anxiously for a few days with a nagging thought in my mind that a million greedy buyers out there are slugging it out just to get ahead to buy this bus. I finally got a text from the owner asking if I am still interested on buying the bus. I responded saying that I am interested and the owner gave me their address.

After driving for about 40 minutes, I finally arrived at the address. The owner is a nice tall old man who seemed to like sailing because he had a canoe sail boat inside his garage. I immediately worked on checking out the bay window bus parked on his driveway.

The owner told me that he had owned the bus since it was brand new. I believe he said that he bought it about the end of 1967 when the bay windows just started to come out. The body of the bus seemed to be in good condition. Nose is undamaged and the body frame behind the front bumper is in good shape. When I moved the front passenger door, I heard water splashing inside it. I told the owner that the drain holes had been plugged by dirt. After shaking the door a bit, water came through the drain hole. I started thinking then that the area inside the door might not be pretty due to rust. But when I saw that the outside surface of the door does not appear to have any rust bubbling, it is possible that the interior part of the door is still be fine.

All the seats including the middle seat were still present. The middle seat has the ‘hotdog’ shape arm rest, which is very desirable. When I pulled the rubber floor mat on the driver and passenger area, I discovered a rust hole slightly the size of a quarter dollar. There were a few surface rust spots on the floor that indicated that rain water sipped through either the windshield or the side windows were left open during a rainy day. At the edge of the windshield where the dashboard starts, there seemed to be some rust powders which tells me that the rubber seals of the windshield is no longer good.

Overall, the body seemed straight and mostly undamaged. There is some body damage behind the right rear wheel but that can easily be repaired. The engine lid had been replaced but the replacement is original. Paint around the engine compartment is original.

Both the transmission and engine had been taken out. The owner said that the second gear of the bus had been slipping. They tried to restore the bus but kept on putting it off until finally they did not want to deal with it anymore. They took off the engine 25 years ago and it was running then. They are afraid that it might be frozen. In my opinion, it might still be good if they kept it indoors. The owner thinks that there are problems in the electrical system but did not elaborate what these problems were.

The license plate is still the 1963 black plates and it was last registered back in the 1980s or 1990s. (I can no longer remember what the owner told me).  If that is the case, the registration is no longer in the computer system of the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicle).

The bus has lots of potential and is a good find because the original owner still owns the bus. I wanted to buy this bus but when I asked how much is he asking for it, the owner said he wants $2500. Upon hearing the price, the excitement that was revving its engine inside me immediately came down to a low idle. The owner claims that he turned down a $2000 offer already.

Though $2500 is still kind of reasonable considering that it is still owned by the original owner, the trio voices of sense, caution and reason were warning me of the possibility of going into the red if I take over the task of restoring this vehicle.

Let me share with you my non-expert opinion and thoughts regarding the restoration of this bus. If I bought this bus then the following would be my initial cost estimate:

$2500 – price of VW bus

$  150 – towing cost

$  180 – DMV fees & registration

$2830 – Total

The gray areas of cost are the following:

Transmission repair cost estimate - $500 to $750

Engine restoration cost estimate - $850 to $1050

Possible wiring harness replacement - $400

Windshield seat repair plus trimmings $65

Brake system replacement cost estimate - $200

Front driver and passenger seat covers replacement  - $?

Rust repair cost estimate - $?

Miscellaneous costs - $?

Body Paint - $?

Total Cost – A mystery!

Whenever I buy a vintage VW parts, bug or bus with the intent of resell it, I abide by a 3-word rule: Clear Profit Margin. This margin has to be crystal clear before I can become confident that the item or a vehicle I am about to purchase is a worthy investment.

It is normal to feel excited or challenged when viewing a project but both feelings have been known to cause people to jump into a project that turned out to be a money pit. I have been burned before and so I am more cautious now on choosing my purchases. There had been times when I had to pass on a promising VW project because my instincts held me back.

I checked the engine of the 1968 bus and I have a feeling that it will run if I fire it up. It does not appear to have been left outdoors exposed to the elements. I could track down a good transmission and buy it for about $200-$300 and the bus will be ready to run. If I get it running, I could resell it for about $4200-$5000. It seems like a good investment but the gray areas where I could incur restoration expenses are the ones that worries me.

This bus deserves a full restoration because it needs to live on. With that in mind, I have to throw out the window my desires for a quick profit. Before me now is a very expensive restoration project.

I told the 1968 bus owner that I am willing to pay the $2500 price if the engine of the bus and its transmission are functioning. But with its current condition, I am a bit nervous in paying that amount. The owner did not want to budge on his price and so I had to sadly walk away from the deal with a heavy heart knowing that another restorer will have the pleasure of restoring this rare rusty gem.

The following day while I was working on the engine of one of my buses, one of the people I know in the VW community came by my house. To keep his identity confidential, I will just call him Bob.

Bob is a known VW parts and vehicle hustler. Some of his ways are quite questionable but mostly he is harmless if I keep him at a safe distance. Profit is the driving factor to his VW hobby and he does not care if he offends other people as long as he gets what he wants.

When Bob came by, he started boasted that he sold $200 worth of parts at the WolfburgWest car show in Corona. I have gotten used to his boasting and so I just nodded to acknowledge his nonsense. He then asked me if I gotten in contact with the owner of the 1968 bus because the owner did not respond to the repeated emails that he sent. Bob was surprised when I told him that I saw the bus and decided not buy it. He started saying that I did a dumb decision and should have bought it. Bob berated me for my ‘bad’ decision and missed on a project that would have earned no less than $1000. He started saying that my current project is trash compared to the 1968 bus that I ‘should’ have bought. I was quite offended and had to remind Bob that I love my projects and he has no right to discount their value.

After Bob realized his mistake, he tried to change the topic by telling me that it is his birthday that day. I think he was hinting that he wants me to buy him a meal or something. Well, tough luck, buddy. I am not spending a dime on you. He left after that. What a pest!

I believe that all vintage VW restorers have different budgets, styles and goals. They match their approach basing on their personalities. There are those who would buy VWs with the intention of doing the bear minimum of repair just to get the car running and flip them for a quick profit. Some would buy them and do an expensive full restoration and resell them to the high end VW buyers. The hated VW buyers are the ones that buy them and chop them for parts. And there are people who would restore VWs on a mid-range budget with the hopes of keeping the vehicle alive in the market. Though there are many other types of vintage VW restorers, I just would like to identify a handful that I have met during my journey through VW restoration.

I believe that I belong to the group that restores VW bugs and buses with the goal of resurrecting them from the rusty pile of dormancy. Bring the life back to a vintage bug or a bus is very fulfilling to me because all my effort is focused in breathing a new life into an item from a bygone era.

I have seen bugs and buses that were ‘tricked’ by the younger generation to make them look like a vintage vehicle with a modern twist. Personally, the guys that do this should not be given the right to own a vintage vehicle. They are the ones that ruin the value of the vintage vehicles and when they get tired of the vehicle, they would either trash it or sell it to a wrecking yard.

Waiting to bag the right VW project at an affordable price takes a lot of luck. Being at the right place at the right time with the right amount of cash is what it takes. The search for that illusive and hidden VW gem that are still out there waiting to be discovered has become an obsession to many. I am still searching for my 15-window, 21-window, 23-Window, single cab pre-1960 and barn door buses. They are out there still hidden in barns, garages, storage containers waiting to be discovered. Is it my day to find one?

The search continues…

Unregistered, Uninsured, Illegal and on the Road

Some people believe that all of us are allotted to commit one very stupid decision once in a great while. Well, mine came yesterday and I came out of it with a story to tell.

As a vintage Volkswagen enthusiast, I always look forward to VW shows in southern California. One of the much awaited VW shows in California is the ‘Bugin’ held in Irwindale, California. Different VW clubs compete on drag races and also classic VW shows. One of the main attractions of the show is the vintage parts swap meet (flea market). During these events my VW buddies and I would load up our vintage VW buses (Kombi) with old parts and antiques to be sold at the swap meet.

Initially, I wanted to load my parts to my VW Kombi but after laboring through half of my Saturday afternoon removing the heavy 1776cc engine off of my 1971 Deluxe VW bus, I did not feel like loading my parts in my bus anymore.

One of my vintage VW club buddies came by my house after dinner time and asked me if I could drive his VW single cab bus that he loaded with parts and an engine for the show. Knowing that he is struggling financially due to a separation with his wife, I decided to help him out by driving his bus for him.

I woke up at 4:10am the following day and hurriedly prepared breakfast to go. My friend came by my house shortly driving his 1957 bug. When I started the bus that is loaded with parts, I noticed that the registration of the vehicle had been expired since December 2011. I then asked my friend if he has accident insurance for his vehicle. He said he doesn’t. I became a bit uncomfortable with the idea of me driving an uninsured vehicle with expired tags. If I get pulled over by the police, I am looking at hundreds of dollars worth of fines. While we were discussing my concern, I felt that there is something wrong with the status of his driver’s license that is why he was afraid to drive his bus. I can tell that desperation is driving him to make unwise and selfish decisions. Though I am fully aware of his self-centered intension, I already made a promise to help him the day before and I intend to keep my promise.

We rolled through the streets with the sky still dark. I prayed to our Lord every block that we passed through asking our Lord to keep cops away from my path.

The distance to our destination is about 35 miles and I kept on calculating the chances of me being pulled over. I also have a dreaded feeling whenever I approach potential locations along the freeway where the highway patrol are most active. My heart was pumping faster than usual and I was constantly checking the headlights of the cars behind me because the highway patrol cars have a distinctive headlight setup.

Cruising at 55 miles an hour, I checked the control panel and the gasoline gauge caught my attention—it was close to empty! I called my buddy who was following me with his bug and asked him if he put gas in the tank. He said he did, $10. What?! I wanted to pull over and strangle him for his stupidity but decided against doing it because that would just cause a delay in our progress towards our destination.

From a distance up ahead, I saw small flashes of red and white lights, a California highway patrol cruiser! My hands froze on the steering wheel. I doubled check my speed, 55 MPH. As I casually cruise passed the highway patrol, I noticed that he pulled a car and is questioning the driver of the car. I figured that there are not a lot of highway patrol cars operating early that Sunday morning and so my chances of being caught is slim.

Since I am not familiar with the road exit at the freeway, I told my friend to drive ahead of me so that I can follow him when he exits. After about a mile, he called me and said that we missed the freeway exit ramp and had to find another exit. This dumb mistake irked me quite a bit because we have to drive about 3 miles through another freeway to be able to find the right road exit at the freeway. I wanted to get off that freeway because I felt that at any moment a highway patrol car will be behind my tail with its lights flashing. I was finally able to relax when we arrived at our destination and there was a long line of old VW bugs and buses waiting for their turn to get into the show.

The show was great and I saw a lot of my VW friends and their families hunting for vintage parts. I did not buy a lot of parts because my garage is already loaded with vintage VW junk parts that I plan to sell at a VW show next month.

After the show, we packed up and the first thing I told my buddy was to find a gas station to put gas in his bus. Confident that he knew the way around Irwindale, I followed him through the side streets. After turning through several streets, he pulled over and called me on the cell phone to told me that he does not know where the nearest gas station is located at. “Are you kidding me, man? Let’s get out of this place!”, I said. 

About a mile up the road, I spotted a major intersection and told my buddy to drive to that location. I was relieved to find a gas station at the corner and we loaded our cars with gas.

It was about one in the afternoon when we headed back home. When we got to the freeway, my heart started to beat faster again. By that time, there were more cars on the freeway compared to when we drove to Irwindale. Anxiety started to creep into my nerves and I kept on checking the rear view mirror analyzing each of the cars behind me up to a quarter of a mile away hoping that none of them is a highway patrol cruiser. As I put more miles behind me bringing myself closer to my destination, it donned on me that the anxiety that I was experiencing is pretty much like the anxiety being felt by illegal immigrants when they take the risky path towards helping their family.

To keep my mind occupied, I tried to be positive by telling myself that nothing will happen to me and the law enforcement people are busy chasing law breakers and criminals. But my conscience reasoned that what I am doing is illegal too! Panic attack started hitting my nerves again. So much for positive thinking!

We finally arrived at the city where I live. After we got off the freeway ramp, my buddy called me and offered to buy me lunch. I quickly declined and told him that I just want to get home and get this nerve wracking stupid experience over with.

When I finally got off the vehicle, I sternly told my buddy that I am not doing that thing again even if he begs me until hell freezes over.

VW rust decisions

One of the things I learned when it comes buying vintage VW bus and buses is to control my emotions before jumping into a project. With the prices of pre-1967 VW buses reaching astronomical levels, good deals are beginning to be scarce. Whenever an early bus or bug comes into the market, a huge flock of buyers seemed to descend on this deal and it is plucked out of the market in a matter of hours or even minutes.

One of the mistakes that people commit is buying old bugs and buses that are cheap without really realizing the cost to restore them to a level where the value of the vehicle is more than the amount they invested in it.

Recently, a pre-1967 VW bus was put in the market. The bus came somewhere in Mexico and brought to the U.S.. I don’t know exactly how it passed through the US-Mexico border. The owner put it up for sale for $2,200. I called the guy and he described to me the condition of the bus. When I saw that the bus had rust holes on the roof, I immediately backed out because I know that is an expensive repair. Collectors normally want a roof that is in good condition. The middle and high end buyers of vintage VWs are very picky but they make the highest bid on good conditioned buses and bugs.

I backed out on the deal and another guy came in and paid the full price. I found out that he paid about $300 at the Department of Motor vehicles for registration and other fees. The new owner is a VW flipper and so he immediately put up the bus for sale for $5000.

With the picky market, there seemed to be no takers for the bus. After a few weeks, I saw the asking price go down from $5000 to $3500. As of today, the bus is still for sale.

When buying a bug, specially a bus, always use caution in your purchase decision because a vintage vehicle can be a money maker or a money pit. Quickly identify the areas in the body that has rust because rust always equals restoration cost. Some parts of the VW is a common rust areas and can easily be repaired. But when rust reaches certain areas like the roof, nose, areas around the windshield, main body frame, the restoration cost becomes quite pricey.

The VW 21-window bus 1965 bus or bust.

Last week, I went to a beach city in Southern California to visit a guy who was selling a 1965 21-window bus. The 21 & 23 window pre-1967 buses are rare and highly sought after by collectors. It is my dream to own one of those but I don’t think I would like to spend tens of thousands of dollars restoring one.

When I finally met the guy, he took me to an auto shop a few miles away from his office and showed me a bus parked inside a restoration shop yard. I had to admit that I was a bit disappointed because the bus had rust issues all over its body requiring expensive restoration. The dashboard looked nice but

the floors had rust, the passenger door on the front has a broken hinge, it does not have a middle and rear sets. It needs to be totally stripped and restored. I estimated the cost of restoration to be around $15,000.

When I asked the owner how much is he selling the bus, he said, “twenty thousand”. I was tempted to asked him the question, “Is that in dollars or pesos?”. But of course I did not asked because the question would come across as an insult.

To find out how much he paid for it, I threw a probing question of, “Would you let it go for $10,000?”. He responded saying that he would rather keep it if my offer is only $10,000. His response tells me that he probably has more than $10,000 already invested on the bus.

The seemingly bloated prices of the 21 & 23-window VW buses is rooted to one event that happened in June 2011 at a Barrett Jackson auto auction in Costa Mesa, California. A 1963 23-window VW bus colored mouse-gray-and-pearl-white as one of the vehicles being auctioned that day. It was in a condition way better than when it rolled off the assembly line 48 years ago. Everybody was surprised when the bids just kept on coming pushing the price of the bus up above the prices of the other vehicles. When the bidding finally ended, the total price of the bus was $219,000 (this included the auction fees and other fees).

The day after that auction, every vintage VW enthusiast wanted to cash in on their bus and started searching

for 21 & 23 VW buses. The owners jacked up prices and buyers went on a buying frenzy for 21 & 23 windows. Many buyers, especially the amateur restorers, paid hefty amounts just to own these buses without realizing that the restoration cost of these buses are very expensive.

I met a guy who bought a 1966 21-window in Sacramento that had been primered but the engine is out. The panels are not attached and the seats are all skeletal. He paid $20,000. I felt bad for him because he over paid for that bus. This is what normally happens to people who become greedy and would buy things because of a buying frenzy that was swirling around during that time. These buyers has to now have the bus restored at an estimated cost of $5,000 for painting, $1700 for a single port 1600cc engine restoration, plus thousands in interior parts, etc.

It only took a few months for the buying frenzy to die down and now people are stuck with their 21 & 23 VW buses and these people are desperate to sell them to get their money back. I believe one of the people who jumped into the frenzy is the owner of this 1965 21-window bus that I was checking out.

I politely declined to buy the bus telling him it is just going to be too much to restore.

The simple lesson in car restoration is to analyze closely the realistic cost of restoration and the range

of value that the car will sell during a season. If you are not too sure about this then do not buy a project that can overwhelm you with the restoration cost.

Restoring a vintage vehicle can be a joy or a horror, depending on how you handle it.